When you talk with Jackie about passionate leadership, heroic workplaces, making a big difference in your work community by doing all the little things, you feel those lofty ideals emanate from her every word. She shares stories about legendary leaders—some of whom are just ordinary people with a strong sense of purpose and commitment—with straight talking and a heartfelt desire to help everyone reach toward legendary leadership. “Leaders are people who are doing the thousands of little things every day, she says, “because they are the right things to do.” Jackie makes you believe that you can make a difference.

Daly. What are two characteristics of legendary work cultures where customers want to do business and people want to work and choose to stay?

Freiberg. It’s hard to narrow it down, because when I do that, it suggests that legendary work cultures are simple to create. Culture has become the buzzword of this decade. People talk about unconventional cultures and ask, “How do we do culture?” You don’t “do” culture. Culture isn’t a program. It’s about the thousands of little things leaders and individuals do each and every day because they are the right things to do.

Daly. And it is often difficult to see those thousands of little things because they seem to happen intuitively. Are there any factors that stand out, which people could identify?

Freiberg. All of the companies that are recognized as legendary workplaces truly put employees first. Plenty of books have been written about, and most people seem to think that the customer is king. If you are not treating your people on the inside as passionately, reverently and powerfully as you want them to treat your customers, you might get customers, and you might not. It’s really critical to put people first; do what you can to serve them in the way that you want them to serve your customers.

Legendary companies also tend to be filled with very passionate people who have great attitudes. I’m not saying that you always have to be upbeat and positive. But typically, when you walk into legendary places you find people that are passionate about the work that they do. Part of the reason why they’re passionate is because these people are being taken care of—they’re affirmed, recognized, rewarded—and are free to focus on the work itself. They are free to offer up their God-given talents without worrying about negative colleagues, ornery bosses, or bad customer experiences.

As you can tell, I’m talking about thousands of things that impact one another. Truly legendary cultures are led by gutsy leaders who don’t think about what is politically correct or what we “should do. They go with their gut. But, I must add, these leaders have pure intentions in the first place, so their guts don’t lead them astray.

Daly. I’m looking forward to your new book coming out next fall that highlights these gutsy leaders. It’s a common conclusion that leaders are born, not made. What’s your take on that belief?

Freiberg. This is a tough one for me since my Ph.D. is in leadership. When we talk about leaders being born, not made, it is true that some leaders are naturally gifted. Learning leadership begins with the premise that you have pure motives and intentions in the first place. That, I believe, is the “born with” quality. That’s a gift that you have to be willing to receive every day.

However, I am a firm believer that people can be trained or coached to become more effective leaders. It takes a desire, a truly passionate desire of heart and head, to become a better leader.

Daly. Passionate desire. Heart. These are qualities that have only recently been stated in the same breath with business.

Freiberg. Leadership is not a purely intellectual pursuit; it is a combination of people and talents. And, it is emotionally, intellectually, and passionately driven. Most effective leaders recognize their strengths and weaknesses and surround themselves with people who fill their voids and exemplify their strengths.

The most ineffective leaders are those who are insecure, ego-driven, and arrogant. These qualities are often shields for a huge sense of insecurity and unwillingness to let others see weaknesses and vulnerabilities. These types of leaders operate shallowly, work independently, and are not full, whole-hearted people.

Daly. These characteristics actually hold organizations back.

Freiberg. They also hold people back. This self-centered leadership creates distrust and frustration in the work environment. I feel sorry for people who work in those places—they don’t feel that they can express themselves. They walk away at the end of the day feeling physically wasted, burned out, and frustrated.

Daly. How can people foster a climate that abates political gamesmanship?

Freiberg. If you find yourself in an organization that is trapped in the mode of political jockeying and gamesmanship, it’s a problem. People can get short-sighted, thinking about themselves and their own successes while neglecting others. It’s all about one person succeeding, not about the good of the organization as a whole.

The bottom line is that if you find these types of people, they become a cancer that infects the rest of the organization in a very negative way. This virus spills out to the customers. The horrible examples of the recent past suggest that people who are individually driven by success will be the demise of the organization.

If you don’t want that kind of culture, you have to do all of the right things. Do what it takes to detoxify the company and build a climate that values community success over individual success. That’s how legendary cultures are created.

Daly. How can companies foster a climate that dissipates the fear of making mistakes (or fear of facing the negative consequences of mistakes) and help people have the courage to be accountable?

Freiberg. Leaders can turnaround a culture that has become fear-based by starting to celebrate mistakes and create learning lessons from those mistakes. There are some great examples. We’ve been in touch with Planet Honda in New Jersey. The guy who runs this place is unconventional and gutsy. He has as much interest in the people who come to work for him as he does in selling Hondas. His claim to fame is that when you bring in your car, they fix it right the first time. If not, the customer can bring it back, and the whole service experience is free of charge. What happens, then, is that the mechanic, who is a union worker, has to fix the car the second time without compensation. This is all endorsed by the local union.

One day a customer told the mechanic for her car, “If you can’t fix it today, I absolutely need it tomorrow.” The mechanic committed to her deadline. As he got involved with the repairs, he discovered that he couldn’t get it done on time. Because he made a promise, he offered the customer a free loaner vehicle. As the customer came back to pick up her own car, she had a bad fender bender that generated a very costly repair on that loaner vehicle. Even though the circumstances were unfortunate, the mechanic did the right thing and was not penalized.

In fact, the owner celebrated the mechanic for doing whatever it took for the customer. He captured the opportunity to show his hard-working, dedicated mechanics that he values them as much as he wants them to value the customers.

Daly. Many people, who may not be born leaders, are thrust into leadership positions. How can they be successful in their leadership roles?

Freiberg. Start with simple observation. Look for great leaders and benchmark against them. Every organization has examples of bad and great bosses. Look at all of them. You might learn more from bad managers, walking away saying, “I would never do that to my employees.” Reflect on your past. When were you influenced by a very good leader? Study that person. Pick up a book like NUTS. Southwest Airlines has done a fabulous job of finding the right managers.

Look for mentors, coaches, and some kind of leadership assessment program by which your peers, managers, and subordinates can evaluate your strengths and developmental opportunities. Ask for feedback. Then begin a program, one step at a time. Set some strategic goals, one month at a time. I truly do think it is different goals each month. Then, during those months, make it one day at a time. Don’t feel bad when you suffer a set back. Look at it as an opportunity to totally change the way that you lead. Celebrate when you did something different and uncomfortable and it worked!

The other day I was in front of some engineers who want to be the consultant of choice in their business arena. They were really into this soft-sided message. “OK,” I said, “then you’ve got to be an employer of choice. People need to want to work for you. The only way people will want to work for you is if you’re a leader of choice.”

Leaders become employers of choice, which become businesses of choice. Leaders are people who are doing the thousands of little things every day because they are the right things to do.

Daly. You talk about branding from the inside out. What’s the concept?

Freiberg. If cultures are about people and if you want to be a legendary culture, start with your people first. Get each and every individual in your organization thinking hard about why they are there and how they add value. The people become a brand themselves. As the ambassadors of the legendary culture, the people are the most powerful public relations element of the business, much more powerful than a branding slogan or advertising campaign.

So often companies bring in a PR firm and say, “This is what we want to be. Come up with a nifty slogan for us.” The PR firm does, and everyone has to try to fit into that slogan, crying, “Oh, that’s what we are this year.” On the other hand, look at Southwest Airlines. They have become a legendary workplace for more than thirty years making a profit in a highly competitive market, building a culture where people love to work and choose to stay.

In the beginning, Southwest Airlines allowed ordinary people the opportunity to do extraordinary things. People could go places and do things that they couldn’t do before because airlines were too expensive. Southwest gave people freedom—freedom to serve customers, freedom to fly places, freedom to make choices. The fundamental drive from day one was not to be like everyone else. And the freedom started on the inside. They gave people the freedom every day to exercise their own gifts and talents every day on the job in their own way. Today, they still allow ordinary people the opportunity to do extraordinary things.

Daly. You talk about helping employees find heroism in their work. “Heroism” is a strong word. What are you implying with this idea?

Freiberg. Heroism is a strong word. But, everyone has a desire to do something heroic in his or her life. Legendary companies with great cultures are really good at helping individuals understand that their job is something more than just a job. The job becomes a cause—the highest value that you bring to your customers. So, ultimately, it is a calling for people. Yes, I’m doing a job, but in the day-to-day responsibilities of what I do, I add value to the customers, colleagues, and communities that I’m serving.

Look again at Southwest, which is in the freedom business. They provide customers freedom to fly all over the country at reasonable prices. The people throwing bags into the belly of the aircraft every day know that. When they see a Mickey Mouse bag, they know that they’re giving a kid chance to see Disney World or giving that child a chance to visit grandparents. They’re not just loading bags—they’re giving people the opportunity to live bigger, better lives. That’s heroic. They’re doing something bigger than a job.

This belief system falls back to leadership. Leaders have to keep communicating these principles back to their people so that even at the end of a hard, stressful day, they can say, “I made a difference to someone out there.” That’s lofty. But legendary cultures are filled with lofty things, and legendary cultures get it.

Daly. How do you find your company’s personality and articulate that to others?

Freiberg. What you’re looking for you will find. If it hasn’t been a priority to clearly discover, articulate, protect, and promote the personality or culture of your company, then your personality will be a reflection of what else is out there in your marketplace and what people are saying about you. It could be a pretty strategic move if you actually try to look for your company’s personality.

We often talk about fun in this respect. We get so focused and distracted on so many things every single day. If we wake up and consciously look for an element of humor it helps us slide through the day. If we’re not looking to discover humor or personality or purity of spirit, we’ll walk right through it unaware.

Daly. That’s a pretty compelling call to action.

Freiberg. If you’re not looking for or trying to create a culture of choice or to become a legendary employer of choice, you’ll find yourself with an accidental, milk-toast culture. You’ll wake up one day and say, “Golly! How did we get this way?”

Daly. What’s the key to helping people stay motivated and committed?

Freiberg. Service on the inside. Continually do whatever you can to serve your people. Re-recruit. Give your great people compelling reasons to want to stay with your company. And, that’s not hosting million dollar cruise and golf excursions once a year. I’m talking about the simple things. Affirm, reward, and re-recruit your best people. Encourage them to use their God-given talents each and every day to make a difference in someone’s life.

Jackie co-authored NUTS!: Southwest Airlines Crazy Recipe for Business and Personal Success, with her husband Kevin, one of last year’s most popular and respected speakers. Jackie brings her own style and spin on creating legendary cultures to her Regatta Keynote, “Branding from the Inside Out,” at HDI 2003.

Help Desk Institute's Annual Conference and Expo—Come Together!

Don’t miss the world’s leading conference on help desk and customer support, March 17th – 20th at the luxurious all-suites Venetian in exciting Las Vegas!

Visit www.thinkhdi.com/hdi2003 or call 1-800-248-5667 to register today!

The service and support industry’s most comprehensive event will feature:

• Inspiring keynotes by Tom Peters, Keith Harrell, Steve Rizzo & Jackie Freiberg
• 80+ sessions in a comprehensive conference focusing on all areas of service and support
• HDI Certification training courses
• Interactive, content-rich, and fun networking activities
• HDI’s legendary conference party and other relaxing receptions
• The Venetian Market—HDI 2003’s Expo Hall—showcasing more than 70 vendors

All that, plus three new programs tailored especially for executives, the serious expo shopper, and spouses—HDI 2003—Come Together truly offers something for everyone!